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GCC: Every once in awhile, somebody does something incredibly amazing. And when they do, I always ask myself, “How did they do that?!” and “Could I also do this amazing thing?”
In this case, that amazing thing is borrowing $250,000 at 0% interest while saving $30k in taxes, $6k+ in interest, and earning $2k+ in bonuses.
Read on to see how one Go Curry Cracker reader did just that.
Intro
Not long ago, Jeremy wrote a blog post detailing his thoughts on the current state of inflation and some strategies for dealing with the situation. In that post, he noted that he has been taking on a bit of low interest debt. He’s doing this because holding debt at an interest rate much lower than the current rate of inflation is generally a winning proposition (i.e., free money). And one of the ways that he is doing this is by applying for credit cards with 0% APR teaser rates that generally last for 1-2 years. After the term expires, the rate increases to the normal rate of, um, a LOT more than 0%, so you want to be sure to pay off the balance in a timely manner.
When I read this post, I couldn’t resist commenting that like Jeremy, my wife and I had recently purchased a house. A new build on which we finalized the contract last summer and closed earlier this year, paying cash with house money. I also noted that to lower the 2022 tax burden, we took out over $200K in 0% credit cards to cover this year’s living and move-in expenses, the latter being substantial because before leaving our old place, we sold/gave away almost everything we owned.
Honestly, I didn’t think that much about my comment or that leveraging credit cards to this extent was noteworthy. But a few readers responded with questions and even Jeremy asked me to write a guest post asking for more details about what I did and why. What follows is that post.
Bio
Before I get started, let me give you a little background so you can understand where I’m coming from. I’m 60 years old and stopped working about three years ago. I always tell people that I never really retired. I just stopped looking for work. I’ll get back to it someday soon…right?
My wife, who’s about the same age, does a little part-time work to help with a family member’s business, but she’s been mostly retired since 2013. Both of us enjoyed our respective careers quite a bit, but we relish the free time and ability to travel even more. We’re always going somewhere!
Though owning a house is what we’ve always done (for better or for worse), we decided to rent for the four years that we recently spent in Oregon. Mostly we did this to remain flexible because we weren’t sure how long we would be there. While we enjoyed our time in the Pacific Northwest (wonderful coastal towns, proximity to family and crazy good beer being the top three reasons in my mind), we knew going in that Oregon was likely a temporary stop over.
So, in the summer of 2021, we decided almost spur of the moment to sell/give away almost everything we owned, cash in some market gains, buy a house and move to the Sunshine State, the land of Disney, beaches and…hurricanes.
The Problem
Now, much has been written about the “pay cash vs. get a mortgage” choice and I have absolutely nothing new to add to that spirited debate. I’ll only say that in our case, we needed to move quick, and nothing is quicker than a cash offer. Also, at the time I knew very little about qualifying for a mortgage without a job or the interest rates that I could expect. I didn’t have the time (or desire) to research the topic for a couple months, so I took the path of least resistance (a path I often travel) and went with a cash offer.
The problem was that even though my wife and I could pay for the house with a combination of cash already in a taxable account and withdrawals from a traditional IRA, doing so would almost max out the 24% Federal tax bracket (about $340K for a MFJ return) and leave precious little to fund the customization and furniture/houseware buying that we wanted to do, vacations that we had planned long before deciding to purchase a home and just the usual day-to-day living expenses.
Our initial thought was to just grin and deal with a marginal 32% or (more likely) a 35% Federal tax rate for this year. But there were two issues even with that.
First, I also had to pay at least some state taxes on 2022 income because we didn’t leave our higher tax state until February. So, the higher our 2022 AGI went up, the more state tax we’d have to pay.
Second, I planned to pay almost all our 2022 Federal and State tax burden in 2023 since the safe harbor rule allowed us to pay very little estimated taxes in 2022. (Our 2021 Federal and State tax bills were very low.)
But now it’s like dominos falling. Paying a bigger 2022 tax bill in 2023 would require more 2023 income than we’d normally need. So, not only would the 2022 tax bill be affected, but the 2023 tax liability would be affected as well. Bummer.
Credit Card Debt to The Rescue. Really?
Back in the summer of 2021, it was hard to estimate exactly how much extra cash we needed for 2022 to fund the move, but we figured, worse case, between $200K and $250K ought to do it. At the same time, I started taking note of those almost weekly credit card offers we received in the mail promising 0% APR on new purchases or balance transfers. As noted earlier, the duration of the teaser rate typically ranged from 12 to 18 months (15 months seemed the most common), after which the rate would revert to something substantially higher.
The more I thought about it, this seemed like a potential solution because I only needed the extra money to get us through 2022. I could easily pay off $200K or so in January of 2023 and still have room enough under the 24% tax bracket to fund our 2023 living expenses, which are projected to return to normal or even a bit less than normal since we’re no longer going to be paying $3K in rent every month.
And not only did 0% APR sound good, but most of these new card offers came with a signing bonus of a couple hundred bucks or so (no problem meeting the minimum spend requirements!) and they were mostly cash back rewards cards with rebates ranging from 1-5%. Once the dust settles in 2023, we could easily be looking at $5K or so of credit card rewards. I’ll take it.
Still, there was a problem. Applying for a single card with a typical credit limit of maybe ten or twenty thousand wasn’t going to make much of a dent in the amount of cash needed. I needed a lot of cards, at least ten, probably more.
The Application Journey
Before starting the application process, both my wife and I had high credit scores (800+). As such, we never got rejected when signing up for a new card. We also hadn’t applied for any new cards in several years. So, we started the application journey in a good spot.
We also had a lot of cards already because over time we had collected numerous signing bonus. Though we no longer use most of our cards and pay off the balances in full for the few cards we do use, the total amount of credit was over $250K. So basically, I was looking to double our amount of existing credit.
I also suspected that once I started applying for cards, our credit scores would surely take a hit and result in lower credit limits granted or even outright rejections. I didn’t want that to happen.
So, I needed a list of 0% APR cards fast. I couldn’t wait for offers to be delivered by the USPS.
Turns out, finding 0% APR card offers is incredibly simple (who knew?). Just click on the 0% APR credit cards link on Go Curry Cracker! (Go ahead, we’ll wait. ☺)
Or if you prefer, there are numerous sites to choose from and most of the card issuers are household names in the financial services industry. Heck, even the ads on the search results are helpful. For example, my search just now included an ad for a Wells Fargo card offering 0% APR for 21 months. Not bad…maybe I should apply! ☺
Once armed with a list of cards with promising terms (at least 15 months of 0% APR with cash back and signing bonuses a nice-to-have) my wife and I started applying like crazy. Two Player Mode!
Within a span of about one week, we had applied for a total of 12 cards. We stopped when we finally started getting rejections due to too many recent credit inquiries. At this point, we had over $200K in 0% APR credit, so that was probably enough anyway. However, just to sweeten the pot, in January of this year, we received a couple of 0% APR offers for two credit cards that we have had for a long time. We figured, why not?
So, in the end, we amassed fourteen 0% APR cards with a total credit limit of just over $250K. Also, in total the cards offered $2000 in signing bonuses with a small minimum spend. And all but two of the new cards were “cash back” cards with various reward levels ranging from 1-5%. It really felt like we’d been paid several thousand dollars in exchange for taking out a substantial loan at 0% interest!
In case you’re curious about the specific cards we acquired, here’s the list, along with an overview of the terms. Instead of just picking cards at random, we tried to pick ones that either had compelling spending perks or were offered by financial institutions with which we might consider a deeper relationship in the future. In other words, we tried to pick cards that were compelling even after the 0% APR expired.
Note: credit card offers vary, the following is what was available when we applied.
- US Bank Cash+(R) Visa Signature(R) card – 0% APR for 20 months. No cash back or signing bonus.
- Citi Custom Cash – 0% APR for 15 months. $200 signing bonus with $750 spend. 1% cash back plus 5% cash back on largest single spending category (e.g., groceries).
- Chase Freedom Flex – 0% APR for 15 months. $250 signing bonus with $500 spend. Cash back ranging from 1%, 3% (restaurant/drug stores) and 5% Chase travel portal and 5% on special categories.
- Wells Fargo Active Cash – 0% APR for 15 months. $200 signing bonus with $1000 spend. 2% cash back.
- Bank of America – 0% APR for 15 months. $200 signing bonus with $1000 spend. 1.5% cash back.
- Sallie Mae Evolve – 0% APR for 15 months. $200 signing bonus with $1000 spend. 1.5% cash back plus 2% on two highest categories.
- FNBO – 0% APR for 15 months. 1% cash back. (No signing bonus).
- American Express Blue Cash Preferred(R) Card – 0% APR for 12 months. (These are the two legacy cards that offered us 0% APR earlier this year.)
The credit limits granted ranged from $9K all the way up to $30K. Amusingly, for cards that both my wife and I applied for, she typically got the better limit by a few hundred bucks.
The Aftermath
Once the cards started arriving in the mail, we shifted almost all our spending to the new cards. Given that we normally pay for things with credit cards, this wasn’t a big change. (Typically, two hundred bucks from the ATM will last us the better part of a year.) The only challenge was keeping up with which card to use to get the minimum spend within the time limit (usually around three months).
But I’m not going to lie. Creating online accounts for the various cards, setting up monthly auto pay and then closely monitoring everything for a few months is a hassle. None of this is a big deal for one card. But do it for fourteen cards and you’ll see what I mean.
So roughly eight months after the first application, here’s my take on how it’s going so far.
The Good
Most importantly, 0% APR really works! I know this sounds dumb but in truth I fully expected that I would have to call at least a few of the card companies to remind them of the 0% APR offer when they “mistakenly” charged us interest. But nope, I didn’t have to. Not once. Every single card has so far adhered to the terms of the deal, including signing bonus and cash back criteria. So that’s a nice surprise, at least to me!
Also, while setting up fourteen new accounts was time-consuming, once that is done things mostly switch to autopilot. The only on-going challenge is to monitor the balances to ensure that we don’t go over an individual card’s spending limit. We monitor our card charges closely anyway, so this isn’t a huge challenge for us.
The Not So Good
First, after an entire adult life of religiously paying off credit card balances every month, it’s frankly a little weird to be running such high balances on cards. (We’re up to about $180K now.) Yeah, I know it’s “free money” and I know that we’ll easily pay it all off come January 2023. But it’s hard to totally shake a lifetime of financial behavior.
And as expected, our respective credit scores took a body blow. Once all the credit inquiries hit our credit record and the outstanding balances started moving up, both our scores plummeted. I didn’t watch it all that closely, but my score generally went into the “poor” range while my wife’s score fared a bit better.
But did it matter? As near as I can tell, not very much. Due to my low score, I had to pay an extra $80 deposit with the power company, but I’ll get that back in two years assuming I pay all the bills on time. On the other hand, the water and cable companies didn’t need a security deposit at all.
Our home and auto insurance premiums weren’t penalized due to our low scores. (I explicitly asked just to make sure.) It probably helps that we’ve been with our current insurer for decades now, so there’s a long history of us paying the premiums on time and having very few claims.
For sure, I don’t expect that now is a great time for us to obtain a mortgage or buy a car on credit. But since we’re not interested in doing either, it’s not a problem. Given the right situation, credit scores really don’t matter that much.
The Not Good
But not everything went according to plan. For example, the credit limit on one of our legacy cards went down by over $10K when we used it for the first time. (By this time, our credit scores had gone south.) Another card’s limit was cut by $20K when a previous large charge was refunded months later due to a cruise cancellation. In both cases, I can only speculate that the bank’s processing system automatically ran a credit check due to the “unusual” transactions, didn’t like what it saw and automatically lowered the limit. In both cases, the lowered limit happened within minutes, so I doubt an actual person was involved. But neither limit restriction was that big of a deal because we had plenty of headroom across our 0% APR portfolio.
The biggest problem encountered is that a few of the vendors we’ve been using for customizing our new home don’t accept credit cards, or if they do, they tack on a processing fee of three percent or so. In some cases, we chose to just pay the transaction fee but for most we just wrote a check. Since we had some cash in the bank even after the home purchase, there shouldn’t be a problem with getting to the end of 2022 without realizing additional taxable income. Still, it’ll be a bit tighter than I would have liked.
Current Status
So, we’re all moved into the new house and though we’re not totally done with the major move-in expenses, it is rapidly winding down. (Thank goodness!)
Oddly, we’re still getting balance transfer offers in the mail, though many of them are starting to feel a bit “predatory”. Many of them advertise “rates as low as %0” so that you can consolidate your debts but if you look at the fine print, you’ll see that the rate you get is tied to your credit score and that the actual rate may be as high as 35%! Yow!
Still, just this week I received a “legitimate” 0% APR for twelve months offer from Capital One. For a 2% transaction fee, I could transfer the balance to my bank account. Since I’m a little worried about having enough cash in taxable accounts to last until 2023, I couldn’t resist. So, add another 10K to the amount of money borrowed at 0% APR.
Was It Worth It?
It’s a good question. And while the downsides so far have been minimal, they’re not totally absent. So, it’s helpful to spend a moment thinking about how much we’ve saved by going nuts with credit cards.
First, a side note to answer a question that Jeremy had when he was reviewing a draft of this post. Once we decided last summer to purchase the house, I sold equity in our retirement accounts to roughly cover our extra need for cash. As a rule, I try to keep about 3-5 years of living expenses in cash or short-term corporate bonds (VUSB and VCSH). Since buying the house was obviously going to suck up a lot of available cash, I simply sold enough equity in 2021 to compensate for the extra cash needs of 2022 and beyond. So, it is not the case that I will have to reduce our equity holdings to pay off the credit card balances because I’ve already done it. The cash has been sitting in an IRA since last summer.
So anyway, 2022 isn’t over, but in round numbers, if we had not gone the 0% APR credit card route, we would have had to incur at least 200K of extra income above the 24% tax bracket (which tops out at about 340K MFJ). Doing this would have taken us past the 32% rate to a 35% marginal rate (which kicks in at about $432K MFJ).
For simplicity, ballpark the effective Federal tax rate at around 33% on that extra 200k of income plus another 1% or so for state tax because we didn’t leave Oregon until February. So, figure we’d need to pay in Federal and State tax combined an amount about 34% of 200K, which is 68K in extra tax for 2022 beyond what we’ll already pay.
Next year, we have options on how to fund expenses. While I won’t decide on the specifics until later this year, one idea is to fund next year with a combination of IRA distributions taxed at a marginal 12% rate and the rest by selling stocks in a taxable brokerage account and immediately rebuying them with the cash currently sitting in the IRA, effectively moving the stocks from a taxable account into an IRA.
The marginal rate on the capital gains should be no more 18.8% (15% plus 3.8% NIIT). So, worse case, that extra 200K will incur about 38K in tax. So, the savings work out to something like 68K – 38K = 30K. And don’t forget the 5K or so of credit card signing bonuses and cash back rewards. Granted, this is all a rough estimate because I’m not yet sure of next year’s expenses (depends largely on how crazy we go with traveling), but even being pessimistic, the savings are significant.
I’m also ignoring any interest and dividends that we’ve earned by keeping money invested for an extra year or so. It’s minimal, but it’s not nothing. I’m also ignoring the fact that we might take advantage of additional 0% APR offers should they come our way in 2023. ☺
But mostly, it’s been educational and fun (in a money nerd sort of way). It’s kind of exciting to borrow money at 0% interest, even if it’s only for a year or so. I’ll be the first to admit that this “hack” isn’t available to everybody and is probably only genuinely useful in a small number of situations. That is, an immediate need exists for a large amount of cash but withdrawing a large sum from a traditional IRA will blow through the lower tax brackets for a given year. It’s a way to transfer a tax liability into the following year.
If you anticipate a need for extra cash repeatedly or for longer periods of time, bite the bullet and get a HELOC or even do a cash out refi. Rates certainly aren’t as low as they were a year ago, but they’re not THAT high. And in the event rates go back down, you can always refi.
And for goodness sakes, don’t do what we did if there’s even the slightest doubt in your ability to pay off the debt within the prescribed 0% APR timeframe. Clearly, the card issuers are betting that at least some of the people signing up for these offers will fail to pay off the balances when the teaser rate expires. If you’re not able to pay off the debt promptly, pain and tears will be the result. But if you’re reading Go Curry Cracker, I suspect that you know this already.
If you agree that is all pretty amazing, you can see what 0% offers are available here: 0% APR credit cards
What do you think? Have you gone crazy with 0% credit card offers?
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While I likely will never have to use this scenario personally, it was an interesting read. Another arrow for the financial quiver. Cheers!
Thanks! I’m glad you found it interesting.
I doubt I’ll ever do this kind of thing again either, at least on this scale. Hopefully this is the last time we move.
I’m certainly in no mood to move again soon, that’s for dang sure!
Quite the experiment! For these “0% APR for XX months” offers, do you still have to pay some nominal monthly fee on your balance? And is any interest accruing in the interim? (For example, you get 0% for 12 months, but any balance left over on Day One of Month 13 is charged the 35% (or whatever) rate?
No. You don’t have to pay any sort of maintenance fee on the balance and interest is not accruing. The interest rate is truly 0%.
However, once the 0% APR term is over, the remaining balance on the card (if any) reverts to the “standard” interest rate.
So obviously, the goal is to pay off the cards in full before the 0% APR period ends.
You *do* have to make the minimum monthly payment on the card, which is typically about 1% of the outstanding balance. Any payments made decrease the outstanding balance on the card by the amount of the payment.
so you just paid the 3% transaction fees? I have 6 figure plus in open credit on existing cards so getting approved has become nearly impossible for me. so do you view this as a bridge loan for a yr.
For some of the suppliers we used, I did pay a 3% transaction fee on occasion. But most of the time, I just wrote a check.
Most companies we dealt with accepted credit cards with no added transaction fees. It was only a few small players that either didn’t take cards at all or only with an add-on fee.
Since running up big balances, I haven’t even tried to apply for a card. I know what the result would be. :-)
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so do you view this as a bridge loan for a yr.
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Exactly! You said it better than I did! A bridge loan at a very favorable interest rate!
If I understand correctly, you didn’t actually buy the house with money from the credit card, you just paid for furniture, remodeling, and current living expenses, along with rolling over any existing but expiring zero percent cards ?
You got it correct. We paid for the house with cash on hand.
Before buying the house, we already had a fair amount of cash in a taxable brokerage, so there was no tax hit with that money.
And we were lucky that we were able to stay just under the 24% tax bracket after withdrawing the necessary additional cash from our traditional IRAs.
So the 0% APR cards did exactly what you say. That is, they paid for furniture, houseware, remodeling and the usual day-to-day living expenses.
I actually didn’t have any prior existing 0% APR cards that expired. So I didn’t have to roll any balances over.
Indeed, almost everything was new purchases. The only exception is that a few weeks ago, I did a 0% APR balance transfer of about 10K to our checking account to add a little cash cushion to tide us over until the end of 2022.
It’s a bit of a management headache, but it’s doable as long as you maintain an accurate spreadsheet. :-)
It’s a neat concept and it was a great read; thanks for putting this post together. I already keep a regular spreadsheet for tracking credit card bonuses and “fee dates” just for racking up credit card points, so something like this falls right in line with what I’m already doing. A neat option if I ever need an interest-free loan!
Thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Don’t most of these cards charge a fee for cash advances? I remember seeing 3% and 5% fees on some applications.
They do. Almost all the ones I see charge a fee of around 2-4% for a balance transfer (aka cash advance).
However, the cards I applied for also offered 0% APR for *new purchases* with no added fee. And not only is there no fee, you also get whatever spending bonuses that normally come along with the card. For example, one of the cards I used offers a flat 2% cash back on all purchases.
In my case, new purchases were all I did (with one exception previously noted above).
This is a great idea. I do similar things… I’ve been messing with these offers for quite awhile. There’s actually a trick to keep your personal credit clean. This likely wouldn’t work for you all bc there aren’t enough cards to get you the limit you needed but works great for other hacks (1 I’ll put below).
There are a few business cards that offer zero % cards. Just get an ein for whatever side money you make (mine is real estate) and then you can blow the zero percent lines up like crazy with virtually no hit to your personal credit.
The only hit is the initial check. From there the balances just disappear into the EIN. I do this almost exclusively now to avoid having balances affect my credit score.
This past year I did it to make free money on the high rate of return for ibonds. $30k. $10 for me $10k for my wife and )10k for my ein.
I used us bank. They’re generally my go to.
Anyway, we’re making 8+% guaranteed return and not tying up any capital to do it.
In 15 months (we’ll 12 now), I’ll either sell the bond and take the small penalty or roll the balance to new cards.
I will say that in bad economic times, these bt offers will often disappear, so if you don’t have the cash, it can be a little dicey. Another risk is the lines are technically callable I think. I’ve heard stories.
I’ve never had a line called on me before even during the financial crisis but they’re within their rights to do so.
I also bought my first investment property this way but it’s a longer and more involved story fraught with danger, riches and intrigue. 😂
Interesting! I had no idea about using business cards this way but it makes perfect sense now that you explain it. Makes me want to start a side-hustle just to do this.
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Anyway, we’re making 8+% guaranteed return and not tying up any capital to do it.
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Now that's pretty cool! I realize that it's not "life changing money", but every little bit helps…
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I also bought my first investment property this way but it’s a longer and more involved story fraught with danger, riches and intrigue. 😂<<
Have we identified the next guest post?
Most Biz cards don’t report to your personal credit report. You can google for a list of those that don’t from miles and points bloggers.
We used to do this. Called it “stoozing” when I was in college 10 years ago. Open up a bunch of 0% interest cards, deposit the funds into high-interest accounts, track the payoff date and keep the interest when all was said and done. Not a bad side hustle. Sadly with the 3% balance transfer fees, it’s hardly possible now. Unless you’re going to spend a bunch of money anyway, like this guy, these offers aren’t really worth it these days. Tbh I bet it would even cause you to spend more than you would’ve with cash without a very strict budget in place. Cool story, but very niche use case.
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Tbh I bet it would even cause you to spend more than you would’ve with cash without a very strict budget in place.
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Not sure I agree…pretty sure I was going to spend what I spent come hell or high water. A new house does strange things to people. :-)
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very niche use case.
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No argument here!
Maybe on a smaller scale, you could use 0% APR for new purchases to stay under a particular tax bracket for a given year, but that's all I can think of for viable use cases.
Sounds like this concept would be scalable to the individual situation.
Good read. Instead of putting spend on the cards, can you have just had the bank send you a check to cover 100% of your credit limit (after the min spend is met of course) and put those funds into a “high” yield bank account for another 1-2% return?
I think most (maybe all) had a check writing or bank transfer option to initiate the balance transfer. For sure, all of them had the option to do a balance transfer from another existing credit card.
I didn’t look all that closely at the various options because I was only interested in the 0% APR for new purchases option.
Doing a balance transfer comes with a couple of downsides, which may or may not be important to you. The first is that the transfer fee is typically 2-5%. The other is that you usually don’t earn rewards points for balance transfers. Points are only awarded for new purchases.
All but two of our cards have some sort of “cash back” reward and I wanted to take advantage of that.
Ya if there’s a fee to get a BT check then it’s not worth doing. A bunch of them have 0% with no fees so that would’ve been worth doing.
I hope you’ll do a follow-up in 2023 to let us know if your credit score bounced right back when you payback the balances. Or does it take time?
>>Or does it take time?
I’m not sure. I guess I’ll eventually find out. :-)
On one hand, supposedly 30% of a credit score reflects credit utilization. Once our cards are paid off, I would expect our credit scores to rise substantially.
On the other hand, 10% of a credit score reflects recently established accounts and recent hard credit inquiries. I’m not sure how long it takes for this effect to fully dissipate. A year? Two? Does the effect gradually fade away or does it just fall off all at once? I don’t know.
You mention you could easily pay off $200k come Jan 2023 a couple of times. Is that from selling securities?
No. i sold the securities last summer. So the cash is available and ready to go.
However, the cash is in a traditional IRA and any distribution is taxed as normal income. I don’t want to realize any more income this year since I’m already at the top of the 24% bracket.
Next year, I’ll probably do a combination of IRA distributions along with selling securities in a taxable brokerage and immediately rebuying them with existing cash in the IRA.
I’ll figure out the details later once the 2023 budget becomes clearer. But I should be able to keep my marginal rate at no more than 24%
Have you considered a margin loan from IB. Their blended rate on $250K loan is ~4% per year with no timed payback requirement as far as I understand it. With inflation running at 8-9% it would be kind free too. You could also always add more to the account and increase your loan if needed.
I thought about it, but I’m kind of lazy and didn’t want to hassle with transferring assets to IB. I’m a pretty happy Vanguard customer, but their margin rates aren’t exactly the best (as you probably know).
But yeah, it’s something I might do in the future should the need arise.
I’ve used IAB for a long time, partly because of that. They have great margin rates and solid savings rate on balances at 1+% depending on how much you have sitting there.. Plus, I use options and they’re just the best for that all around as far as execution and volume.
I regularly use margin there to plug short term holes or take advantage of arbitrage opps so that I don’t have to disturb my portfolio. I hate sitting cash in a bank account, so it’s better for me mentally to have it in there working for me.
I will say that with rates going up though the opps to arbitrage are slimmer and generally not worth doing but every once in awhile you get the IBond type return going and it can be worth it.
With banks still at a 2-3% transfer fee though, they’re generally better or you can do like the OP and use the card for purchases to avoid the transfer fee.
Supposedly IB will liquidate your shares without even calling you if you drop below margin requirements.
I’m scared that in a “flash crash” (shares drop 99% and stay there for 30 mins, this happened in 2015) IB would liquidate my shares automatically, a few minutes before they recovered. Have you received any assurances they wouldn’t do this?
The US is far ahead in terms of credit cards like this lol.
Do you not need to prove income to apply for the cards? My issue has been that every card requires salary confirmations, so we’d get stuck post a level of $50k credit for $100k of income. Do they not check that in the US, can you apply without a job?
I’ve never had to prove income to get a credit card by sending in pay stubs, tax returns or whatever. For the most part, I think your credit score is the most important factor to getting approved for a card, not your income.
For “normal” home mortgages in the US you definitely have to prove job, income, debts, etc. It can be a time consuming process.
There are also mortgages that you can qualify for based on assets. GCC wrote a great post on them not long ago.
I’ve never applied for an asset-based mortgage but I did briefly talk last year to a broker about applying. It sounded like the application process was pretty straight forward and quick. Prove your assets and you’re in. The amount of loan you qualify for is formulaic based on the amount of assets you own. (It varies from loan to loan.)
You can definitely get a card without a job in the US. It’s not even uncommon for the application to list “retired” as a an option for current job. I think this makes sense though as lots of retirees realize significant income from their portfolios.
As an example when we were making $92k combined I was always honest on CC apps, but combined we had over $260k of available credit.
Banks are looking for very low usage across existing cards to avoid additional risk. If an applicant has 4 cards and each one is maxed out they’re not going to take a big risk and issue a card with a high limit that the borrower most likely can’t repay. If they could repay then their other cards wouldn’t already be maxed out. This is the behavior of someone who is neck deep in debt and is looking to incur more debt with likely no way to repay.
What a timely post? We sold a chunk of our index funds for a down payment, and I was thinking of exploring HELOC to finance the rest of the year, so we can max our 401Ks, HSAs etc to bring down our taxable income as much as we can. The credit card route looks like a better option.
Thanks for the detailed post, plus the list of cards you used. Care to tell which one you’d start with first. We just need about $20K.
For me, the Wells Fargo card was a winner. Flat 2% cash back (I like simplicity), easy to cash in rewards, and (for whatever reason) a high credit limit.
I expect to continue using this card even after paying off the balance.
But YMMV.
Glad you enjoyed the post!
Thanks Mark – I already have a chase preferred, so I thought I’d go with the Chase Freedom Flex. But I’ll give the Wells Fargo a relook.
As a follow up, now that you’ve got all these credit cards, are you going to close some of them, and take the credit score hit?
Actually, I don’t plan to close any of them. You never know what kind of offers they may make in the future.
And some of the special “spending category” rewards are compelling in their own right. The extra earnings aren’t exactly huge $$$ but they do add up. As long as it’s a category in which we normally have a significant spend (like groceries), I usually go for it.
Really, I think we’ll probably use most of them even after the 0% APR ends. We just won’t run a balance. :)
Keep in mind that it’s sometimes difficult to get approved for a WF card if you don’t have an existing banking relationship with them. They usually do checking account signup bonuses for you to double dip.
Interesting. I don’t currently have any other relationship with WF other than the card. I guess I got lucky.
In fact, one of the reasons I applied for a WF card is that there’s a branch very close to our new home. I figure I might want to expand the relationship somewhere down the road. A card seemed like a good place to start.
You can also go into a WF branch and ask to check if you’re pre-qualified. Branch approvals are also more likely than online apps if you don’t have a relationship yet.
Funny this just got reposted because I re-read this article over the weekend. I’ll be implementing some form of this strategy Tim 2023 to ensure I get to a 20% downpayment for a house or quickly get to 20% to avoid paying PMI for very long. I’m trying to avoid selling too much stock while the market is down.
It’s a power move for sure
And so far so good here…. At this point just waiting until January so I can pay off the balances
And hopefully do it again later in the year! :-)
For house renovation, I just applied for 9 cards, got $128,000 in 0% credit ranging from 15 – 21 months. Credit score 785ish, dropped by 9 points from all the inquires according to chase credit journey. Took an hour or two. Once I got a few TBDs and one rejection, I decided to stop. Previously I had opened a chase 0% card and called the bank to transfer excess available credit, and was able to get to about $100K 0% by only opening 1 card. Since I already had credit with chase and they are willing to transfer it. Hint: whenever you close a CC, call to see if they’ll transfer the available credit if you have another card with the same bank (chase, BoA, and others will). Thanks for the story!
Very nice!
Yeah! Very nice! I happy to say it all worked out great for me. Hopefully, you’ll have the same experience.
My own 0% APR journey has come to an end, at least this round. I paid all of the cards off about a week ago. It was tough saying goodbye as I’ll miss the interest that my MM account was earning towards the end of last year. :-)
It hasn’t been long enough for my credit score to show improvement but I am starting to get emails congratulating me for paying off my balances. Hopefully, the banks will thank me later this year with additional 0% offers!
This is such a beautiful story, thanks again for sharing it!
How did you get your cash into an IRA? I thought you had to have earned income.
I may not be getting your question. Or maybe it wasn’t directed to me. But I didn’t put additional cash into an IRA because, like you say, I had no earned income that year. The IRA(s) were funded from back in the day that I *did* have earned income. (Seems so long ago….)
He had cash sitting in the IRA for flexibility.
So if he sold stock somewhere else that he really wanted to keep he would buy the same stock in the IRA with the cash sitting there.